Bungalo Bill
Hall Of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by grimmbomb21
Ok. I was just reading on another thread about Roddick having a huge forearm being a big part of his serve.
It doesnt. The reason Roddick has a big serve:
1. He can extend the distance between his racket head and where the toss is by extremely good flexibility in the shoulder area.
2. He is extremely compact and can transfer energy through his rotation and shoulder energy with a relaxed arm up into the ball.
3. His compact motion calls for him to quicken his acceleration to meet the ball on time. (abbreviated serve motion benefit).
4. He is explosive in the legs which sends energy upward.
5. He tosses way out in the court and simply smacks the puppy.
6. He extends fully.
7. His wrist does not SNAP when he meets the ball. The wrist is actually straight (right where it should be) for clean contact.
8. His arm is like rubber. It just whips into the ball.
Slow his motion down and you will see all of the above and the stuff you learned would quickly become a myth.
Strength is always important but Federer also can hit a mean serve but we dont hear his arm is huge. It is in the mechanics and God given talent to be extremely flexible.
Remember when it comes to the serve, flexibility, relaxation, and your ability to generate quick kinetic energy through the chain goes way farther then muscle strength in the power department for a serve.
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Yesterday, 03:40 PM #17
grimmbomb21
New User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungalo Bill
It doesnt. The reason Roddick has a big serve:
1. He can extend the distance between his racket head and where the toss is by extremely good flexibility in the shoulder area.
2. He is extremely compact and can transfer energy through his rotation and shoulder energy with a relaxed arm up into the ball.
3. His compact motion calls for him to quicken his acceleration to meet the ball on time. (abbreviated serve motion benefit).
4. He is explosive in the legs which sends energy upward.
5. He tosses way out in the court and simply smacks the puppy.
6. He extends fully.
7. His wrist does not SNAP when he meets the ball. The wrist is actually straight (right where it should be) for clean contact.
8. His arm is like rubber. It just whips into the ball.
Slow his motion down and you will see all of the above and the stuff you learned would quickly become a myth.
Strength is always important but Federer also can hit a mean serve but we dont hear his arm is huge. It is in the mechanics and God given talent to be extremely flexible.
Remember when it comes to the serve, flexibility, relaxation, and your ability to generate quick kinetic energy through the chain goes way farther then muscle strength in the power department for a serve.
Thanks for the reply. Now are you saying that the muscles in the forearm that rotate the hand and wrist stay loose and relaxed throughout the entire service motion. Just using the shoulder to pronate your arm? Or do you turn your arm in with the forearm muscles, too. Sorry if I'm making you say the same thing 100 different ways. I just want to make sure we're on the same page.
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Yesterday, 08:28 PM #19
TENNIS_99
I remember I was watching on TV one of the Roddick's game a few months ago, a commentator (might be Cliff Drysdale) asked Patrick Mecnore - won't Roddick hurt his shoulder killing serve like that? Patrick answered his power comes from his legs. The big forearm might have something to do with his big forehand. I remember during my days of playing junior tennis, my right forearm was disgustedly bigger than my left forearm.
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Yesterday, 10:24 PM #20
AngeloDS
Semi-Pro
Actually, you get a bigger forearm through pronation. When I first started doing the Roddick style serve, it really makes your forearms sore. You have to really strengthen it, if you want to play long matches.
When I first started, I could only get through maybe 3/4 of a set. The soreness creeps in slowly, and by the time you're up your forearm and hand is pretty much numb from the soreness and using it. I've strengthened my forearms and got use to the soreness.
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Today, 04:04 PM #23
downthemiddle
New User
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5
Thank you for your question. The low ball toss vs. the high ball toss is a controversial issue. The ball should be at its apex when the arm is fully extended, and body is leaning in a straight and diagonal position into the court (power line). The ball toss should never be higher than what your racket can reach. This method of intruction on the serve comes from the Vic Braden system of teaching.
The hip turn only means that you rotate your knees inward when starting the serve. A good reference point for this movement, would be to imagine your chest facing the fence behind you on your initial turn for the serve.
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Today, 04:19 PM #24
downthemiddle
New User
I forgot to explain what the palm down serve is. Imagine the top of your hand always facing the sky. When you bring your arm up to hit, you want to think like you are thowing a football.
The following movements will help to have a palm down serve. It is hard to explain without visually seeing it, but I will try my best.
1. Cobra position: Racket is loose in hand like you are about to throw a football. The two ends of the football are facing each back fence. This way your hand is palm down and ready to "strike" like a cobra.
2. Next, you want to "comb your hair". Let the racket come over your head (palm down still), which means the top of your hand is still facing the sky.
3. Here is where people have trouble. As Vic Braden sais, "Don't scratch your back, scratch a friend's back". From the "comb your hair position, you want to go to the "talk on the phone" position. Imagine you were talking on the phone with the grip of your racket. This movement allows you to "scratch a friend's back"!
4. A little trick to tell if you are doing these sequences right is to use your hand without the racket, go into cobra, to scratch your head, to talk on the phone and then "high-five your other hand. The high five occurs at the end or pronation of the wrist.
Once again, sorry if this seems confusing. It would be great to buy the Vic Braden videos on serving. He makes strokes a science
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Today, 04:50 PM #25
Bungalo Bill
Hall Of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by downthemiddle
Thank you for your question. The low ball toss vs. the high ball toss is a controversial issue. The ball should be at its apex when the arm is fully extended,
Well a high ball toss and a "low" ball toss are not that controversial. Very few players use a high toss (above two feet from what you can reach with the racket).
The guideline for a toss is two feet higher to what you can reach with your racket.
Abbreviated servers tend to toss in the lower end while "normal" serve swings tend to toss in the higher end of the two feet margin for timing.
Quote:
and body is leaning in a straight and diagonal position into the court (power line). The ball toss should never be higher than what your racket can reach. This method of intruction on the serve comes from the Vic Braden system of teaching.
Yes, Vic did numerous tests on how long a ball stays suspended due to gravity taking its effect on the ball. A falling ball will pass through the sweetspot of the racket vs. one being hit at the apex (ball is suspended before it starts to fall). However, most servers do find it easy enough to toss about two feet higher and little the ball come down a little. The distance the ball is coming down does not increase the speed the ball is falling that much for timing.
__________________
Volkl Tour 10 (93 sq. in)
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Today, 05:01 PM #26
Bungalo Bill
Hall Of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by downthemiddle
I forgot to explain what the palm down serve is. Imagine the top of your hand always facing the sky. When you bring your arm up to hit, you want to think like you are thowing a football.
The following movements will help to have a palm down serve. It is hard to explain without visually seeing it, but I will try my best.
1. Cobra position: Racket is loose in hand like you are about to throw a football. The two ends of the football are facing each back fence. This way your hand is palm down and ready to "strike" like a cobra.
2. Next, you want to "comb your hair". Let the racket come over your head (palm down still), which means the top of your hand is still facing the sky.
3. Here is where people have trouble. As Vic Braden sais, "Don't scratch your back, scratch a friend's back". From the "comb your hair position, you want to go to the "talk on the phone" position. Imagine you were talking on the phone with the grip of your racket. This movement allows you to "scratch a friend's back"!
4. A little trick to tell if you are doing these sequences right is to use your hand without the racket, go into cobra, to scratch your head, to talk on the phone and then "high-five your other hand. The high five occurs at the end or pronation of the wrist.
Once again, sorry if this seems confusing. It would be great to buy the Vic Braden videos on serving. He makes strokes a science
Yeah that is a bit confusing. I think the Cobra thing got me.
Basically, for a person learning the serve you dont want them taking a ful swing to begin with. Isolate the most important movements.
When I have sutdents learn:
1. The racket is laid on top of the shoulder with the palm facing the ear. This is the talking on the phne position.
2. the next position is drop the racket down behind the shoulder with the palm still facing the ear. It is like you are carrying something over your shoulder.
3. In order to get the above position, you might want to bring your elbow outward and then back inward as your racket drops. It is like throwing a baseball or a football or one of your children (if you have them).
4. Relax the arm thoroughly and throw your hand up. You should notice that the palm naturally turns to face forward or towards the net. That is when you want to make contact.
5. The arm and wrist should be relaxed.
Once your get the motion of the arm, you can choose whether you want to go with an abbreviated serve or a "normal" serve. Toss and motion would be adjusted accordingly along with lower body introduction.
__________________
Volkl Tour 10 (93 sq. in)
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Today, 08:35 PM #27
grimmbomb21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungalo Bill
Yeah that is a bit confusing. I think the Cobra thing got me.
Basically, for a person learning the serve you dont want them taking a ful swing to begin with. Isolate the most important movements.
When I have sutdents learn:
1. The racket is laid on top of the shoulder with the palm facing the ear. This is the talking on the phne position.
2. the next position is drop the racket down behind the shoulder with the palm still facing the ear. It is like you are carrying something over your shoulder.
3. In order to get the above position, you might want to bring your elbow outward and then back inward as your racket drops. It is like throwing a baseball or a football or one of your children (if you have them).
4. Relax the arm thoroughly and throw your hand up. You should notice that the palm naturally turns to face forward or towards the net. That is when you want to make contact.
5. The arm and wrist should be relaxed.
Once your get the motion of the arm, you can choose whether you want to go with an abbreviated serve or a "normal" serve. Toss and motion would be adjusted accordingly along with lower body introduction.
Ok. I tried it your way.( relaxed forearm.) Good Lord!! I'm not taking any tips from anyone else!! When I was really just trying to smack the ball, not thinking too much about everything, the pace was wwwaaayyy faster than I usually hit. The fastest I have clocked my serve was 110mph. Though I have gotten a few faster than that, I didn't have my radar gun with me. But today, wow, nothing even close!!
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